DaveBen
SDD Senior Member
Very true Scarlet_Nape.
Dave
Dave
Rude awakening
- Thread starter happeetxn
- Start date
Ok,
I talked to the DPD, the officer was very polite and helpful (just giving credit where credit is due). Here is what DPD was able to tell me:
The officers did make contact with the individual and that an ambulance was called to transport him to the hospital. There was not a paper report made out, instead the officers used internal codes when they filed the report, which is a routine procedure. The officer I spoke with said she could investigate it further but when a call for an ambulance is placed it is usually because the individual is impaired in some manner (drug / alcohol), in need of psychiatric eval, or complains of a medical condition / problem.
I was happy with the outcome and I didn't feel the need for her to investigate this further. However, her (the police officer) answer hit home because of something my wife said. After this incident my wife said maybe God put him on our porch because He knew we would call the police and this guy would get help if he needed it. Now I am thinking...maybe so.
Craig
I talked to the DPD, the officer was very polite and helpful (just giving credit where credit is due). Here is what DPD was able to tell me:
The officers did make contact with the individual and that an ambulance was called to transport him to the hospital. There was not a paper report made out, instead the officers used internal codes when they filed the report, which is a routine procedure. The officer I spoke with said she could investigate it further but when a call for an ambulance is placed it is usually because the individual is impaired in some manner (drug / alcohol), in need of psychiatric eval, or complains of a medical condition / problem.
I was happy with the outcome and I didn't feel the need for her to investigate this further. However, her (the police officer) answer hit home because of something my wife said. After this incident my wife said maybe God put him on our porch because He knew we would call the police and this guy would get help if he needed it. Now I am thinking...maybe so.
Craig
fordtrucker4life!
I work with waste
Sounds like you handled the situation well. You never know what those people are going to do. In our range of cleaning sewers and ect. we do a fair share of work in Detroit. Which is the #2 deadliest city in the country. Things get stolen out of the trucks during broad daylight. Chris Chelios, a Red Wings defenseman, owns two bars one in Detroit and one in Dearborn. A 17 year old who was fired from there went back and killed the two managers with a knife. Why do people do what they do? No sense at all. And the sadness goes on constanty. There are at least 2 incidents a month that are senseless killings.
Rookie
Full Access Member
I have a real sweet little 20ga side by side carraige gun parked by the front door. It's the perfect size for the wife (5', 100#'s) she even scares me with it...It does double duty as a wake up for my daughters dates (be careful with my baby and did I tell you I'm a disgruntled Viet Nam vet...?) and where it can be grabbed easily "just in case". Instead of 00, I'm using quail loads.
mp18d
Full Access Member
homeowner tactics
Hi
Guys, sorry but I gotta throw a little cold water on this discussion...I am a semi-retired cop, a deputy in a major dept in Cali. I spent the last 12 years of a 25 year career on our tactical team, and eventually did a bit of teaching in that area. A claim to fame was that I was almost shot by a homeowner when I was a new patrol deputy; a situation much like that described here. A lot of case studies show a different take on tactics for the homeowner. Your job should not be to do anything more than hold your ground in a safe area with your family, buy time, and call the cops for the heavy lifting. They are trained and equipped (hopefully!) for that job.
Craig, I am really glad that everything turned out OK for you and your family. And maybe your right that it was supposed to work out that the guy could now get help..
But, if he was truly bent on violence, for what ever reason, he could have fired on you thru the door, making your house and it's contents, his....
Action is always faster than reaction.
If some goofball knocks on the door, bangs on a window, or heaven forbid comes into the house, gather up the family and barricade yourself in a room in the house. Upstairs room if at all possible, one with multiple exits or hiding options. Then you have the time and safety to holler at him to leave. If that doesnt work...
Take your phone with you, take your home defense gun (a shotgun is simply the only way to go for several reasons) and hopefully you can turn on a bunch of lights both inside and out. Call the professionals.
DO NOT go out and confront the badguy. At 0darkthirty just woken up from your nice warm bed, maybe after a nitetime cocktail or two, worried about your family, your decision making abilities cant process the possibilities. Assume the worst and go totally defensive. Retreat, barricade/hide yourself, buy time, and call 911. Tell the comm clerk where you are hiding and DO NOT hang up. Dont open the door until the comm clerk tells you to. When the cops have control of the situation they will radio back and you will be told.
If this ****head is all that determined and/or stoned, loud authoritive voices will not intimidate him. Racking the slide on a shotgun, barking dogs, chem agents (MACE, Pepperspray), less lethal weapons etc will not deter him. That is why we ALWAYS had multiple cover officers for the guy deploying the beanbags/rubber rounds/gas etc. They seldom worked on the folks we were called out for, the worst case scenario type. Which is what this is, a worst case scenario.
If all this fails, and he comes after you, at least you control his access and know where he has to come thru afording you the best possible shot with your defense weapon, the 20gauge shotgun with a 20" barrel.
Without a bunch of training and a whole lot of practice, it is unlikely you and your family can control a 12gauge with a decent load enough to stop this determined guy. And if it comes to a shooting situation in this scenario, you are gonna have to stop the badguy now, not later when he bleeds out or the lung(s) collapse. So small shot simply doesnt work. At room distances, a shot pattern just doesnt spread enough to compensate for poor employment of the weapon. And the big shot in 12g which is basically 32caliber sized, will penetrate multiple walls. Bad news for any innocents in the house. But the 20gauge with big shot is at least, IMHO, a decent compromise. It is controllable by you and your wife/kids, delivers decent stopping energy accurately for the poorly prepared shooter, and has less secondary penetration potential.
A pistol? Forget it. Law enforcement shootings have less than 20% hits. How can you do in this ****ty situation?? Honestly, this is not a slam, it is just reality.
Again, your job is not to apprehend or even dissuade this suspect. You are simply to defend your family and you as best you can. You do this by being smart; go defensive and wait for the cops.
It takes forever for the cops to get there?? Maybe, but you have a much better chance for survival by NOT confronting, just wait and be patient. When the patrol guys, and anyone else with a radio, hears of a barricaded family with some dip**** loose on the premises, they will drop everything (even dinner and donuts
) and roll Code to get to you. They live for that call to come out......
I know it is not macho or the American Way to retreat and wait for help. It just goes against the grain. But this is your best chance for surviving the situation, you and your family.
There are a lot of different "what ifs" but the basics are always the same; get everyone safe, control access to all of you, buy time, call the pros, dont confront, if it deteriorates to a shooting situation use the proper weapon.
Good luck. Be safe. And thanks for all the expert info on my truck. It has been a huge help!
Mike
ps-I dont recommend hiding guns in differnet locations thru the house. On the day you wont have time to police them all up and take em with you. You dont want the badguy to have access to extra weapons. Plus there is the issue of kids and guns in the house.....
Hi
Guys, sorry but I gotta throw a little cold water on this discussion...I am a semi-retired cop, a deputy in a major dept in Cali. I spent the last 12 years of a 25 year career on our tactical team, and eventually did a bit of teaching in that area. A claim to fame was that I was almost shot by a homeowner when I was a new patrol deputy; a situation much like that described here. A lot of case studies show a different take on tactics for the homeowner. Your job should not be to do anything more than hold your ground in a safe area with your family, buy time, and call the cops for the heavy lifting. They are trained and equipped (hopefully!) for that job.
Craig, I am really glad that everything turned out OK for you and your family. And maybe your right that it was supposed to work out that the guy could now get help..
But, if he was truly bent on violence, for what ever reason, he could have fired on you thru the door, making your house and it's contents, his....
Action is always faster than reaction.
If some goofball knocks on the door, bangs on a window, or heaven forbid comes into the house, gather up the family and barricade yourself in a room in the house. Upstairs room if at all possible, one with multiple exits or hiding options. Then you have the time and safety to holler at him to leave. If that doesnt work...
Take your phone with you, take your home defense gun (a shotgun is simply the only way to go for several reasons) and hopefully you can turn on a bunch of lights both inside and out. Call the professionals.
DO NOT go out and confront the badguy. At 0darkthirty just woken up from your nice warm bed, maybe after a nitetime cocktail or two, worried about your family, your decision making abilities cant process the possibilities. Assume the worst and go totally defensive. Retreat, barricade/hide yourself, buy time, and call 911. Tell the comm clerk where you are hiding and DO NOT hang up. Dont open the door until the comm clerk tells you to. When the cops have control of the situation they will radio back and you will be told.
If this ****head is all that determined and/or stoned, loud authoritive voices will not intimidate him. Racking the slide on a shotgun, barking dogs, chem agents (MACE, Pepperspray), less lethal weapons etc will not deter him. That is why we ALWAYS had multiple cover officers for the guy deploying the beanbags/rubber rounds/gas etc. They seldom worked on the folks we were called out for, the worst case scenario type. Which is what this is, a worst case scenario.
If all this fails, and he comes after you, at least you control his access and know where he has to come thru afording you the best possible shot with your defense weapon, the 20gauge shotgun with a 20" barrel.
Without a bunch of training and a whole lot of practice, it is unlikely you and your family can control a 12gauge with a decent load enough to stop this determined guy. And if it comes to a shooting situation in this scenario, you are gonna have to stop the badguy now, not later when he bleeds out or the lung(s) collapse. So small shot simply doesnt work. At room distances, a shot pattern just doesnt spread enough to compensate for poor employment of the weapon. And the big shot in 12g which is basically 32caliber sized, will penetrate multiple walls. Bad news for any innocents in the house. But the 20gauge with big shot is at least, IMHO, a decent compromise. It is controllable by you and your wife/kids, delivers decent stopping energy accurately for the poorly prepared shooter, and has less secondary penetration potential.
A pistol? Forget it. Law enforcement shootings have less than 20% hits. How can you do in this ****ty situation?? Honestly, this is not a slam, it is just reality.
Again, your job is not to apprehend or even dissuade this suspect. You are simply to defend your family and you as best you can. You do this by being smart; go defensive and wait for the cops.
It takes forever for the cops to get there?? Maybe, but you have a much better chance for survival by NOT confronting, just wait and be patient. When the patrol guys, and anyone else with a radio, hears of a barricaded family with some dip**** loose on the premises, they will drop everything (even dinner and donuts
) and roll Code to get to you. They live for that call to come out......I know it is not macho or the American Way to retreat and wait for help. It just goes against the grain. But this is your best chance for surviving the situation, you and your family.
There are a lot of different "what ifs" but the basics are always the same; get everyone safe, control access to all of you, buy time, call the pros, dont confront, if it deteriorates to a shooting situation use the proper weapon.
Good luck. Be safe. And thanks for all the expert info on my truck. It has been a huge help!
Mike
ps-I dont recommend hiding guns in differnet locations thru the house. On the day you wont have time to police them all up and take em with you. You dont want the badguy to have access to extra weapons. Plus there is the issue of kids and guns in the house.....
Scarlet_Nape
PITA
Mp,
Thanks for all the very helpful information. It carries a lot more weight, coming from someone "in the know".
I don't have a 20gauge, but will be shopping for one in the future.
Bolthead
SDD Junior Member
Glad you and your family are safe! I agree with Maxtor regarding self protection. We live in AK and everybody worrries about the size of animals and how deadly they can be, but the two legged type can be much more leathal.....
I am an ex cop also. and most of what mp18d is correct, but I disagree with his choice and reasons for a 20Ga over the 12 Ga. and also the location for the confrontation if needed. You don't always have the time to get all your family into one room. It is best to be in a position to take on the intruder as he is coming into the house. If you have your entry area lighted, you are going to be able to tell if it is a uniformed police officer or a bad guy. If you are barracked in a bed room, it is pretty much a shoot only situation. Myself, I would want to be in control of the situation, and confront the intruder under my conditions. Both ways have their merits.
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mp18d
Full Access Member
Fundamentals
Yup, Max is right. If you cant get everyone together, then find some stronghold with good cover (which does not mean a wall) and go into your intimidation moves to try and convince him to go elsewhere. If the entryway is all you have between you and your family, make it happen there.
But Max I believe is thinking like a cop and is gonna take the person on. I maintain it is not even your job to find out (in the middle of the nite..) if it is a cop, milkman, or badguy. At this point it is not a shoot/no shoot situation and you are trying to avoid that as much as possible.
A badguys decision has been made. You still have to figure it out and have too much going on to make much in the way of decisions; you are task saturated and have poor situational awareness, to use the "in" terms. You can though buy time and call for help...You can think it through and make that final decision long before he breaches your stronghold.
As far as weapons; go to your local public range. They usually have guns for rent or demo. Explain to them what you are looking for and try out both the 12gauge, 20gauge and even pistols. Then think about on the day having one pull of the trigger to end it, under all these stressors and make an educated choice.
We used to drive around for hours on quiet nites and discuss tactics and weapons. Hours upon hours of what if, how about this and that. We trained once a week at our range and could do what we wanted. We tried a whole bunch of stuff. And still we had questions and dissenting opinions. There is often no right or wrong answer. Just try and follow the fundamentals, keep it as simple as possible. As unpleasant as it is, think and preplan a bit while mowing the lawn, riding fences, washing the car or whatever. It is much easier then, then on the day, to make plans and decisions.
Again, be safe.
Mike
Yup, Max is right. If you cant get everyone together, then find some stronghold with good cover (which does not mean a wall) and go into your intimidation moves to try and convince him to go elsewhere. If the entryway is all you have between you and your family, make it happen there.
But Max I believe is thinking like a cop and is gonna take the person on. I maintain it is not even your job to find out (in the middle of the nite..) if it is a cop, milkman, or badguy. At this point it is not a shoot/no shoot situation and you are trying to avoid that as much as possible.
A badguys decision has been made. You still have to figure it out and have too much going on to make much in the way of decisions; you are task saturated and have poor situational awareness, to use the "in" terms. You can though buy time and call for help...You can think it through and make that final decision long before he breaches your stronghold.
As far as weapons; go to your local public range. They usually have guns for rent or demo. Explain to them what you are looking for and try out both the 12gauge, 20gauge and even pistols. Then think about on the day having one pull of the trigger to end it, under all these stressors and make an educated choice.
We used to drive around for hours on quiet nites and discuss tactics and weapons. Hours upon hours of what if, how about this and that. We trained once a week at our range and could do what we wanted. We tried a whole bunch of stuff. And still we had questions and dissenting opinions. There is often no right or wrong answer. Just try and follow the fundamentals, keep it as simple as possible. As unpleasant as it is, think and preplan a bit while mowing the lawn, riding fences, washing the car or whatever. It is much easier then, then on the day, to make plans and decisions.
Again, be safe.
Mike
Hoss 350
My GSP, Dutch
Amen, Mp18d. You said it and then some. It isn't a macho thing. It isn't an ego thing. It isn't even an "what's right and what's wrong" thing.
It is avoiding an unecessary confrontation in which someone might die.
It is putting your family first, not your ego or your macho. You go confront him. What happens to your family if he beats you?
Besides, why be in such a hurry to take a life? I don't think you are in the wrong for dropping someone who has invaded your home, but why push the issue? If you can stay out of his way, do it. Don't risk yourself, or your immortal soul, for a GD TV set. How do you know that it isn't some dumbass 17 year old kid that is doing this on a dare?
Long story short, I have no qualms with hiding in the shadows and waiting for the boys in blue, that have more body protection than a pair of underwear and a 6-year old pair of eyeglasses.
Besides, I'm not totally sure i would want to kill someone. I mean, I would do it in a second if I had to, but i remember how I felt right after the big fights I had in my life (all two of them, most of you read about the one not long ago) and I felt horrible about beating the guys up. I cannot even imagine the feeling of having taken a life. i don't want to feel that feeling without the absolute assurance that I had no choice, that it was unavoidable.
You guys that talk like you'd be in a big rush to put a notch in your stock had probably better have a quick come-to-jesus with yourself and decide if you really feel that way, and if so, why?
