6.0 running rough, no throttle, no hot start

[bismic1]

The 04.5 year model did not have the troublesome STC fitting. That was in 05 and up ONLY.

The 04.5 model year did increase HPOP capacity for the larger oil rails, but STILL had the weak swash-plate design HPOP. It did NOT get upgraded to the V4 piston style pump. That also is in 05 and up.

So, unfortunately, the 04.5 model year has a failure prone HPOP, AND it has failure prone dummy plugs and standpipes. The quick connect fitting that connects its HPOP to the branch tubes is the old style and it is pretty reliable.

Even on the 05 and up, the solid one-piece fitting was NEVER installed from the factory. Ford resisted International on this change and for several years Ford installed a support bracket instead of the one-piece fitting (which was the final fix).

Regarding your problem, it is always best to get cranking engine data when you actually are experiencing the no-start. Unless I read it wrong, all the data you posted was with the engine running.

That said, you should probably do an air test (best done w/ a engine hot).

Personally I think it is best to buy the test fitting that allows you to hook up your air in place of the IPR valve. This eliminates a leaking IPR valve from the testing.

Listen especially closely to the oil filter housing (with the oil filter removed). If you hear air leaking or a gurgling there, then the HPOP is bad.

Inspect the IPR closely for contamination inside of it and for the condition of the screen. You can even test it electrically to see if it moves.

 

[04gold60]

The 04.5 year model did not have the troublesome STC fitting. That was in 05 and up ONLY.

The 04.5 model year did increase HPOP capacity for the larger oil rails, but STILL had the weak swash-plate design HPOP. It did NOT get upgraded to the V4 piston style pump. That also is in 05 and up.

So, unfortunately, the 04.5 model year has a failure prone HPOP, AND it has failure prone dummy plugs and standpipes. The quick connect fitting that connects its HPOP to the branch tubes is the old style and it is pretty reliable.

Even on the 05 and up, the solid one-piece fitting was NEVER installed from the factory. Ford resisted International on this change and for several years Ford installed a support bracket instead of the one-piece fitting (which was the final fix).

Regarding your problem, it is always best to get cranking engine data when you actually are experiencing the no-start. Unless I read it wrong, all the data you posted was with the engine running.

That said, you should probably do an air test (best done w/ a engine hot).

Personally I think it is best to buy the test fitting that allows you to hook up your air in place of the IPR valve. This eliminates a leaking IPR valve from the testing.

Listen especially closely to the oil filter housing (with the oil filter removed). If you hear air leaking or a gurgling there, then the HPOP is bad.

Inspect the IPR closely for contamination inside of it and for the condition of the screen. You can even test it electrically to see if it moves.

Thank you bismic for the clarification on the hpop, I think I actually found another post of you saying that same thing along those lines.

Now what would be the odds of an hpop going bad while essentially sitting? I parked this thing and ended up changing out a pushrod that was bent causing a cyl 3 contribution code, then I resealed all the injectors and oil rails and new dummy plugs and stand pipes. I would love to do the air test but where I am at I don't have access to shop air.

I will try and get some of cranking when hot, I am actually replacing the ipr screen and the icp sensor and also installing the 6.4 banjo bolts

Sent from my LG-M322 using Tapatalk

 

[fordman60]

Almost hate buying these things used when you have no idea the history on it whether that work has been done, now if it has whats the likelihood of it breaking again?

Sent from my LG-M322 using Tapatalk

Quite low unless the fitting was not square to the block and the o ring blew out

 

[04gold60]

The 04.5 year model did not have the troublesome STC fitting. That was in 05 and up ONLY.

The 04.5 model year did increase HPOP capacity for the larger oil rails, but STILL had the weak swash-plate design HPOP. It did NOT get upgraded to the V4 piston style pump. That also is in 05 and up.

So, unfortunately, the 04.5 model year has a failure prone HPOP, AND it has failure prone dummy plugs and standpipes. The quick connect fitting that connects its HPOP to the branch tubes is the old style and it is pretty reliable.

Even on the 05 and up, the solid one-piece fitting was NEVER installed from the factory. Ford resisted International on this change and for several years Ford installed a support bracket instead of the one-piece fitting (which was the final fix).

Regarding your problem, it is always best to get cranking engine data when you actually are experiencing the no-start. Unless I read it wrong, all the data you posted was with the engine running.

That said, you should probably do an air test (best done w/ a engine hot).

Personally I think it is best to buy the test fitting that allows you to hook up your air in place of the IPR valve. This eliminates a leaking IPR valve from the testing.

Listen especially closely to the oil filter housing (with the oil filter removed). If you hear air leaking or a gurgling there, then the HPOP is bad.

Inspect the IPR closely for contamination inside of it and for the condition of the screen. You can even test it electrically to see if it moves.

Here is some cranking, after replacing what I replaced I can't even get it to start

Sent from my LG-M322 using Tapatalk

 

[bismic1]

Of the above four screen captures, was the second set of data taken when you were cranking with the ICP unplugged (since the ICP volts were zero in that attempt to start)?

 

[bismic1]

I hate to recommend spending more money, but the Torque Pro is not that great of a code reader. The phone app ForScan Lite does a great job reading codes. It is free, unless you want the ad-free version .... then it is $10 IIRC. Also, you will need an OBDII ELM327 adapter (Wi Fi for i-phone and Bluetooth for Android). I like the BAFX brand of adapter. They are around $35. It might pick up an injector code that Torque Pro can't see.

Do you have a known good FICM to try? Sometimes the logic board goes bad and you really can't recognize when it does. The logic voltage of 9.5 volts is low, but it usually starts at that voltage. Doesn't take much lower to cause a no-start though.

Keep your eye on cranking rpms. You need 150 or over to start. You get that most times from what I see.

Can you monitor Cam/Crank sync also? I know some Techs that say you can't have FICM sync without having Cam/Crank sync, but I have seen it a few times. That said, I can't say 100% for sure because some scan tools have enough of a time delay that you can't see everything at the exact same time.

Lastly, monitor the v-reference voltage. It should be very close to 5v. Sometimes an EBP sensor, an EOT sensor, or another odd sensor can cause a no-start if they have a short in the 5v reference circuit. If the v-reference voltage is off, you can try disconnecting most of the sensors that use it.

 

[04gold60]

Of the above four screen captures, was the second set of data taken when you were cranking with the ICP unplugged (since the ICP volts were zero in that attempt to start)?

Yeah I had one picture where I had the icp unplugged and same result no start. Is the ipr at 53% showing I have a leak or is that fine with the amount of pressure the icp shows?

Sent from my LG-M322 using Tapatalk

 

[04gold60]

I hate to recommend spending more money, but the Torque Pro is not that great of a code reader. The phone app ForScan Lite does a great job reading codes. It is free, unless you want the ad-free version .... then it is $10 IIRC. Also, you will need an OBDII ELM327 adapter (Wi Fi for i-phone and Bluetooth for Android). I like the BAFX brand of adapter. They are around $35. It might pick up an injector code that Torque Pro can't see.

Do you have a known good FICM to try? Sometimes the logic board goes bad and you really can't recognize when it does. The logic voltage of 9.5 volts is low, but it usually starts at that voltage. Doesn't take much lower to cause a no-start though.

Keep your eye on cranking rpms. You need 150 or over to start. You get that most times from what I see.

Can you monitor Cam/Crank sync also? I know some Techs that say you can't have FICM sync without having Cam/Crank sync, but I have seen it a few times. That said, I can't say 100% for sure because some scan tools have enough of a time delay that you can't see everything at the exact same time.

Lastly, monitor the v-reference voltage. It should be very close to 5v. Sometimes an EBP sensor, an EOT sensor, or another odd sensor can cause a no-start if they have a short in the 5v reference circuit. If the v-reference voltage is off, you can try disconnecting most of the sensors that use it.

I have the Kiwi 2+ bt reader.

I am always full of questions but I figure better I should try and learn all I can, what would cause the logic voltage to be down while the main is still reading 48v?

Sent from my LG-M322 using Tapatalk

 

[bismic1]

The power board is designed to step up even "lowish" voltage to 48 volts. The logic board takes what it can get. Low system voltage contributes and but it could possibly be a wiring/connector issue and maybe the FICM relay or fuse, but most of the time they are pretty much either good or bad.


https://swampsmotorsports.com/files/Fordficm.pdf

 

[04gold60]

The power board is designed to step up even "lowish" voltage to 48 volts. The logic board takes what it can get. Low system voltage contributes and but it could possibly be a wiring/connector issue and maybe the FICM relay or fuse, but most of the time they are pretty much either good or bad.


https://swampsmotorsports.com/files/Fordficm.pdf

So I got it to run, no idea how, it just decided to start.

I got some pictures of it running and also trying to start it after it died, this thing is so frustrating.

I have a feeling I will have to pull the oil rails off and check my work, maybe I nicked a top seal?

It seems to reach about 120 degrees oil temp and it's like someone flipped a switch, it runs rough and then stalls out and won't restart, unplugging icp does nothing.

I replaced pigtails for the icp and ipr, new ipr screen, 6.4 banjo bolts, blue spring, injector seals and nipple cups and o rings, I must have messed something up

Sent from my LG-M322 using Tapatalk