reduce under hood temperatures

[motorhead440]

Your on to something Maxtor

Ford obviously recognized a/the problem as the deleted the underhood pad and front hood lip seal on my 2005 Excursion. Anything you can do to lower overall underhood temps will prolong the life of the tons of plastic components , generate more power through less heat soak of the intake tract and transferr less heat to all the other cooling lines passing through. I have been searching high and low to find a cooler thermostat in the 180 range but have had no luck to date. I have heard the mantra "diesels like to run hotter" over and over and that may be true in theory if one could strictly confine the heat to the combustion chamber itself .

 

[Maxtor]

Motorhead 440;

I agree with you 100%

 

[DaveBen]

If you drop your thermostat to 180°, your mileage will drop. It is true that diesels like to run at higher temperatures.

Dave

 

[motorhead440]

well.....

If you drop your thermostat to 180°, your mileage will drop. It is true that diesels like to run at higher temperatures.

Dave

Again, I hear what you are saying . Respectfully I say, it is not true. Its particularly not true as a broad brush statement. I have to ask , where did you find a cooler thermostat for the 6.0 to test this? Or, are you simply taking someone's word for it? And where did they find a cooler stat for a 6.0 ? etc etc etc .. I have carefully tested this on my 2001 24 valve cummins and after installing a 180 degree stat transmission temps dropped 10 degrees average even while towing. Coolant temps stayed rock solid at 180 degrees towing my 10,000 pound boat in all weather conditions. My fuel mileage picked up 1.5 mpg across the board towing and not. I switched back to the factory 192 for a week to be certain and yep sure enough I lost 1.5 mpg across the board , all fluid temps rose and the truck just seemed ( not scientific) to run bad. After the week was done I switched back to the 180 and kept it that way for 100,000 trouble free miles. I also learned that Cummins recommends and installs a 180 thermostat in other 5.9 ISB applications. I realize this just ancedotal evidence and I mean no disrespect, but that is acceptable to me cause I DID IT. I would like to conduct the same test with the 6.0 but simply cannot locate a 180 thermostat for the application. If you have any leads that would be helpful , I'm all ears . If I ever get to test for myself I'll share my ancedotal results with all.
I just got back in from a trip to Key Largo towing my boat and my 2005, 6.0 Excursion had wildly varying coolant, oil and trans temps according to my Autoenginuity software. Coolant temps varied around 195-210 , trans temps were 162 - 170, Oil temps were 221-230. After my Cummins experience, I do not view this as effective thermal control and find the wildly varying temps as unacceptable and requiring my attention if this thing is gonna live long enough for me to get my money's worth. I personally like my vehicles relatively stock, clean , smooth running and COOL running. So if you know where I can pick up a 180 stat for a 6.0 please hook me up. Thanks !!!

 

[Kleetus]

How much heat comes off a stove pipe? Dunno guess it depends on the fire, but I'd think it would be about 5-600 degrees... if you can't see it glowing red, I'm pretty sure you're under 800. I'll check at work on monday, some of the drafters have some heat treating books.

The Summit ad for "up to 70% reduction" That's UP TO, not AT LEAST. Moot point, but... I really wonder howmuch that would help under a load. When the fan's engaged, it's moving a lot of air around under there, I'd have to think that it would be cooling something else off. Even if the coolant is 210, the manifolds will have a sufficent temperature differencial to get some good cooling.

I just thought of a better test rig... go to Wal-fart and get a house thermometer with the indoor/outdoor thermocouple, stuff one end under the hood, and the rest in the cab. If you can get an analog unit, you'll probably have enough resolution to see when the fan's on and off and stuff like that.

I don't know that a 15 degree temperature swing in coolant is all that horrible really, 8 and 9 for the oils, same thing. Our 60 series detroit in our 2000 GPM tanker under a decent load in the summer swings about 8, and the oil pressure actually changes a few (2-3) psi during this event. That's also not moving, ie parked at a fire for a few hours. Don't forget, it's got a lot more thermal mass to it as well.

I do agree about keeping it cool though. Higher temperatures tend to affect the emmissions of an engine. Higher = more NOx, but in theory a better burn. When I did the 351w for my Capri, I opened up the additional holes in the head gaskets that were sealed off, covering coolant passages from the heads to the block. I had a 180 thermostat in it. Going down the road it ran anywhere from 180 to 185 for most crusing. At 140, WOT at 5000 rpm for about 15 miles it almost hit 210, but hung out about 208.

I know I should know this, but where is our T-stat? up top or burried behind 50 pounds of crap?

 

[Maxtor]

Radiant heat off a stove pipe or a trucks down pipe is cumulative. An example is when you first start up your heater on a cold day, it takes time to heat up a given size space. each minute that goes by, the space gets warmer until it reaches it's maximum. Your truck fan is activated by a thermostat relating to coolant temperature, not under hood heat.
I do not think a 120 degree thermostat next to a exhaust system that is radiating heat between 600-1200 degrees is going to tell us much, except it can read up to 120 degrees.
Kleetus, a 351w in a Capri sounds like one sweet ride. I have a 428scj with nitrous in a 1960 Falcon. Lots of fun.
This forum is great. Many ideas, and opinions.

 

[motorhead440]

Question

I don't know that a 15 degree temperature swing in coolant is all that horrible really, 8 and 9 for the oils, same thing. Our 60 series detroit in our 2000 GPM tanker under a decent load in the summer swings about 8, and the oil pressure actually changes a few (2-3) psi during this event. That's also not moving, ie parked at a fire for a few hours. Don't forget, it's got a lot more thermal mass to it as well."


I know this is a rhetorical question and somewhat argumentative but here goes: If Cummins can maintain steady temps in a 5.9 ISB , why can't Navistar ? Have we dropped our expectations of what $48,000 should buy? I'm listening to what you have to say and respectfully, its not a good enough answer for me. I want steady temps and am used to steady cool temps in all but the most severe conditions and it looks like I'll have to accomplish what Ford half heartily attempted to do. No problem gives me something to do , not bitter, just complaining..... a little.

 

[Kleetus]

I hear ya... so what temp did the ISB run at consistantly? Now you say an ISB, was this in a pickup or a commercial truck? They are not the same thing. The commercial versions are almost always less HP and consequently less "peaky" than their HO cousins. It is possible that we are pushing the 6.0 way harder than the VT365 would ever see. I think the VT365 top ratings are 250 HP and 620 tq, with a max rpm of about 2800 or 2900. That's a lot easier to regulate than what we're driving around.

This one I ask because I don't know what dodge does in their trucks, but are their gauges marked in temp or hot/cold kinda thing? I assume, and or hope you were reading the temp from something other than the factory gaugues?

Maxtor - I did kinda forget about the lack of high scale reading abilities there.. my bad...

 

[motorhead440]

What I'd really like ..

is for someone to give me the part number for a 180 thermostat so I can finally shut up about it . -popcorn . And to answer your questions my Cummins ran 180 rock soilid all the time , hell or high water.

 

[Maxtor]

180 degree thermostat

Hi Motorhead440

I have been checking for ya. on the 180 degree thermostat, and Ford only sells the original 192 degree stat, with housing...Can't buy the stat without the housing here at my local dealer.
Found one at Kragen Auto
part # 14899
manu Stant
At least that is what the Kragen parts person said. I asked him three times if the stat was 180 degrees, and he said yes.
Bad news is that it costs $36.99
I am interested to see if the 180 stat will help or hurt. Is there any sensors that work off of coolant temperature, besides the temp gauge?
I was surprised to find out that the stock stat is 192 degrees. I thought it would be around 200. I learn something every day, even at my old age. The challenge at my age is to remember what I learned.. ha ha.


Found a site that has good specifications on a 04 6.0 PSD

http://www.meadowlandford.com/ford-6.0L-engine-specs.htm