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Kleetus

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dang it... you're gonna make me go get a thermodynamics book... I can't see how a fuel burning in an excess of oxygen can be colder than a lot of fuel burning in the same amount. Dunno... I know it's a different heat cycle and all, but still, eventually you're gonna run out of consumable O2.

Anyway, this doesn't solve our man's problem here... But I do agree something doesn't add up...
 

bushpilot

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Kleetus g'head get the book out...i love a good education...
ill be happy to bring a motorcycle over to you and we can play
w/ the jetting...ill be happy to show you what ive learned from
messsing (some call it tuning) w/ mixture.

i agree about the limitation and depletion of O2 but...its a fine
line in gas engines...but my experiance says "too lean" is bad...
same as too RICH....but you WONT blow an engine or melt a
piston w/ too much fuel in a gasoline based engine...
 

nakahama001

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dumb question

hey guys i know this is a dumb question but how should i check if my truck was chipped im not sayin anything to the dealer for obvious reasons but i d kinda like to know if it was -popcorn
 

DaveBen

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There is no way for you to know unless they ripped it out by the wires and did not clean up the mess.

Dave
 

bushpilot

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there shouldnt be any signs...depending on the unit you MIGHT
find some "fang" marks or splices in the wiring...but thats about
the best you could hope to find...'specially w/out the ford factory
scan tool.

i might be inclined to look around/at the PCM & ICP connectors to
see if they were "cleaner" than all the other connectors...but even
thats a shot in the dark and speculative.
 
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Kleetus

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I'd look for clean connecters around the PCM and other signs of hands where they normally wouldn't be. If all the wire harnesses are dirty evenly, you're probably safe, if everything under the hood is spotless, you're SOL...
 

Hoss 350

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Kleetus said:
It could be underfueling... lean = mean... hence the bad injectors. I think we need more information other than our own speculation!
Lean=mean only works in gassers. Diesels always run lean, they don't run at stochiometric like a gasser does. (they CAN run rich, if you screw around with them, but rich makes black smoke in a diesel) The more fuel you add, the more power you make in a DI non-stoichiometric engine like a diesel. And, it is backwards from a gasser. Lean gassers run hot. Rich gassers run cool.

Lean diesels run COOOL. You know how people are always complaining about how their diesel engine NEVER warms up when it is cold outside? That is because every single diesel on the road that doesn't smoke like a freight train is running very, VERY lean.

Rich diesels run HOT. Adding a chip adds more fuel, makes smoke (therefore it is RICH, and the summation fo all of this is you'd better be adding GAUGES or you're going to burn your engine up.

You can tell if a diesel runs rich. It makes lots of black smoke. If it ain't making smoke, it's running lean. At low load high speed conditions, diesel engines can have a fuel air ratio of as low as 150 to one or lower. Gassers always run at around 14.

I think a couple leaky injectors were probably overfueling thise cylinders and burned them up. They other option is that something went haywire under the hood and advanced his timing to the point to where stuff burned up...
 

Hoss 350

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Kleetus said:
dang it... you're gonna make me go get a thermodynamics book... I can't see how a fuel burning in an excess of oxygen can be colder than a lot of fuel burning in the same amount.
Because in a properly tuned diesel engine, there is ALWAYS an excess of oxygen. You're confused because you are thinking about a throttle-plated gasser burning at stocihometric (ie, the fuel/air ratio is the exact amount of oxygen needed to burn that exact amount of fuel). If you go OVER stoicihometric in a gasser, you have unburned fuel taking heat out the exhaust. If you go UNDER stociometric in a gasser, the excess oxygen burns ALL of the fuel and things start heating up. The ratio in a gasser has to stay around 14 parts air to one part fuel for it to work properly, so the throttle plate "meters" the amount of air intirduced into the cylinder by making the cylinder draw from a vacuum of varying levels of intensity depending on how wide the throttle is opened.

Diesels do not have a throttle plate like gassers do, so there is no way to "meter" the amount of air pulled into the cylinder with each intake stroke like there is in a gasser. Therefore, on a naturally aspirated diesel engine, all other things being equal, the amount of air drawn into the intake is the EXACT SAME AMOUNT with every intake stroke, whether the throttle is WIDE OPEN, or closed all the way... The speed an power output of the engine is regulated by regulating the AMOUNT OF FUEL INJECTED into the cylinder. So, if you are in a low-demand situation, say, coasting on a flat road, your air to fuel ratio could be 200 parts air to one part fuel, because the pump/injectors is only injecting a TINY amount of fuel on each TDC to maintain the coast. In fact, the air to fuel ratio can become INFINITE when coasting down a hill with the throttle closed, since most modern diesels inject NO fuel under these conditions. Therefore, in a *properly tuned* diesel, there is ALWAYS more air in the cylinder than is needed to burn the fuel injected. That means, the only way to make more heat is to inject more fuel, right? So, the leaner the ratio in a diesel, the COOLER it runs, because there is less fuel being burned to make heat. The closer it gets to stociometric and a "rich" condition, the more heat it makes, since there is more fuel to make more heat. Keep in mind that up until stociometric, ALL of the fuel is being burned ALL the time, so the only way to make more heat is to ADD MORE FUEL.
Dunno... I know it's a different heat cycle and all, but still, eventually you're gonna run out of consumable O2.
Since the amount of air taken in by a diesel in EVERY intake stroke, even at IDLE, is the SAME, and since this amount is the same as you get at WIDE OPEN throttle in a similar displacement gasser, a properly tuned diesel engine will not reach this point until full throttle.

A modified diesel can and will reach this point pretty quickly with more agrressive fuel curves, and when it does, the result is unburned fuel in the form of BLACK SMOKE. At this point, adding more fuel does not generally create more power, of more heat, since the fuel is being wasted, not burned.

This is why adding a turbo to a diesel works so well. It allows you to cram more fuel in and still have enough air to burn it all, and the most lovely thing about it is that the more fuel you cram in, the more air IT crams in in return. That is why it is so easy to make power in a turbocharged diesel. All you have to do is add fuel (to a point, of course) and it naturally takes care of the rest by it's very nature.

Anyway, this doesn't solve our man's problem here... But I do agree something doesn't add up...
It adds up perfectly if you can get rid of the throttle plate that you have in your minds eye. Without that throttle plate, it is a completely different ballgame...:sweet
 

lvtitan

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bushpilot said:
Kleetus g'head get the book out...i love a good education...
ill be happy to bring a motorcycle over to you and we can play
w/ the jetting...ill be happy to show you what ive learned from
messsing (some call it tuning) w/ mixture.

i agree about the limitation and depletion of O2 but...its a fine
line in gas engines...but my experiance says "too lean" is bad...
same as too RICH....but you WONT blow an engine or melt a
piston w/ too much fuel in a gasoline based engine...
you are correct sir. in a gas motor a lean mixture will surely cause a meltdown. .
a rich environment is safer.
in a diesel: less fuel equal less power equal less heat.
on gas: more o2 equal more heat, why do you think a lawn mower revs like crazy right before it runs out of gas ? cause it's lean.
 

Kleetus

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Jesus... I already understood the basic operating concepts and fundamental differences in a diesel engine... lol.. Where I'm having trouble is in the excess fuel category. True each stroke of a diesel is the moves the same amount of air at any speed and throttle position, independant of fuel delivered. The only thing I can't see is that at some point, you will have so much exess fuel it can't burn it all, or it can't burn period. There's got to be a practical limit to the amount of fuel that can be shot in.

Now to go along with you guys, (and I accept the information) this is probably where the alcohol/water injection systems come into play. If with large amounts of fuel being shot in, raises the combustion temperature to an unsafe range, the water added will absorb a ton of heat and create steam, which further helps shove the piston in the right direction. I would expect to see this at the unpractical limits of fuel admission.
 

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