Perplexed with my 6.0

[MuleMan]

Last fall I replaced all injectors and glow plugs with some from Diesel Care and Performance (DCP) out of Tennessee. I have about 5k miles since and now experiencing some issues.

My configuration is May of 2003 born date, have 90k on engine, manual transmission, EGR delete, 4 inch exhaust, and Juice Attitude tuner. Ran too much bio diesel through the rig and (I assume this happened to me as it was confirmed with my brother's rig) it 'opened' up the nozzles and lost power, he had to replace his duramax injectors.

Called DCP and the salesman talked me into their products and I put them in mid Sept. It ran really good then their glow plugs started to die. By Nov 10, 3 glow plugs stopped working 2 on one side and one on the other bank. Replaced the DCP glow plugs with motorcraft and also replaced the harness over the weekend. Called DCP where they refunded my money, they were good on that side of their word.

Recently, my rig starts great but after it warms up, it will not run right between 800 and 1800 rpm. It doesn't throw any codes (using Torque app with my android phone) and is set up as Diesel Tech Ron recommends. But it struggles and does not rev with the foot pedal and is really slow to respond. So, I changed the fuel filters and which had the 5k miles from when I replaced the injectors. The lower Racor filter, when looking to the inside had brown lines creeping up the filter ribs, so I assume I had some contaminates and did its job. After replacing both filters, it cranked up and we took off. It stumbled some until on the highway and everything smoothed out. Drove about 20 minutes to a known good fuel station and filled up without any issue, put in some Standadyne additive. On the way back, while going up a slight incline, it bogged down and dropped to 55 mph. Reached the top of the rise and it raced back to life and ran great all the way home. I was monitoring the gauges set up on Torque App and all appeared good. Something I noticed, when I let it idle, it struggles... and misses some. But when I roll in and park, the EGT is about 360F and as it idles, it increases to 400 if I don't shut it down.

One other important detail, it has died when lugging or coming out of an idle and the Juice display will blank out and reboot. After reboot, it fires up and runs good. I have shut off the Juice and it still 'acts' the same.

The FICM voltage always stays about 48 but ranges from 47 to 48.5. The HPOP runs about 1600 while going down the road and 650 at an idle. ICP voltage ranges from .2 to 2.2 and stays about .8 at idle. The FICM sync, stays at 1.0. Cleaned the turbo last Sept and replaced the alternator, the batteries test fine; just a farm raised, lose nut behind the wheel...

Here is where I need your input. There are a number of things that are weakness's to focus on...

Is there a chance these new injectors are not performing? Will call DCP to ask what they think but what do you think? What am I missing?

Sorry for the long winded question -

Ken, NW Wy

 

[MuleMan]

Guess I stumped you with this one or no-one is willing to participate?

This is what I am think may be happening and a tentative plan...

In another tread, the fuel pump was the culprit for something similar and I believe I will purchase a replacement. My FICM volts usually stay near 48 and I don't think this is the issue - but I want to get a better one in the future, but not today. I want to get a good one and considering adding the atlas 40 HP tuning - what do you think?

And something else to add, this rig sat most of the winter and wonder if that created a settlement issue? Also, I did a blue spring upgrade about a year ago and didn't notice any thing. A weak fuel pump would provide a possible reason why I didn't notice anything. But I do not understand why my Edge display shuts off and recycles when I am at a slow speed or idle, such as sitting at a stop light?

Maybe new batteries, checking the electrical connections, and a FICM upgrade will be my next adventure... I will post my results after the repairs.

I am still interested in others thoughts...

K

 

[rotun]

We have an '06 that was experiencing similar issues, no codes at all. Towed to the dealer 3x and the gremlin would not present itself. Each time it went to the dealer it would sit for awhile, if not all night before the tech could get to it. I gave this truck to my son (I have an '07) who is enlisted Air Force, he's in Texas while I'm in SoCal. Troubleshooting with him over the phone added some challenge and made it so I had to really think about what was happening. Turns out the in tank fuel pump was on it's way out. had him drop the tank and clean (was way too much crud in it) and replace the deteriorated pump/pickup assembly and been running strong ever since. The engine was being starved for fuel due to the debris being sucked into the pickup assembly. After sitting for a while the debris would loosen up and truck would start but the longer it ran the worse it got. Sometimes you just have to go back to the basics in troubleshooting. If your pickup assembly has never been changed it might be a good idea to go ahead and swap as well as clean out the tank. Hope this helps, may not be the cause but definitely something to look at.

 

[MuleMan]

As an update, replaced the inner rail fuel pump with a new fuel filter and the rig ran great, for 2 days.

It is back to running rough, not responding to foot throttle increases, running high EGT, dies at an idle, and only has a power-train code of 1000. All the critical elements I am monitoring with Torque Pro are good, so I believe I am missing something else. It still starts fantastic. Here are some numbers and improvements:

FICM voltage drops to 47.0 when it starts and stays at a strong 48.0v, Sync stays at 1.
HPOP starts at 633 and within seconds of running, improves to 950-975 psi at idle, then 1800 when running down the highway.
ICP Voltage starts at 0.8 and stays about 1 but will max out about 2.2 when at 2k rpms,
IPR % is 32.1 at idle and my batteries are old but hold 12 plus volts.
Fuel filters are new, engine oil is 10 quarts of 5-40 synth rotella and 4 quarts 15-40 - - it appears clean not gritty with 3k miles since change and new motorcraft oil filter.
The injectors are relatively new rebuilds, new high volume water pump
Have the Blue Spring upgrade.

I agree with rotun and I really hope the tank fuel pump is the root to my issue. Will set up a manual fuel pressure gauge soon and see where that takes me. My tank is over 20 gallons full and will putz around some while trying to drain the tank before dropping it and looking at the fuel pump - if my pressures are not holding steady under load - think Diesel Tech Ron says they need to be over 40 or 50, but will watch the variation.

Another thing, I am worried about the health of the injectors as I have heard that poor fuel pressure can 'eat' injectors. There is slight colored smoke out of the exhaust and it smells really rich.

Think I will pull off the Juice Edge with Attitude and see how it runs without this addition.

I appreciate ROTUN's input very much, anybody else have some insight from what I am describing?

Thanks

 

[rotun]

+1 on the low fuel psi not good for injectors. Also, if it is the internal fuel pump you are taking a chance of damaging the HFCM as well as injectors. It will take less time to siphon 20 gallons than it will to drive it down and no chance of further damage. Not that you don't know how to siphon but here's how I do it...Get clean 5 gal cans or buckets, stuff a good size hose in the tank along with a rag and your shop air hose, blow into tank until fuel is draining. Once the tank and pump situation is fixed, we took a 2x12 cut to length and placed it on a floor jack with tank on top, poured fuel back in through top of tank, installed pump assembly and jacked up the half full tank to reinstall. Had 2 of us so it was a piece of cake, otherwise reinstall empty tank and refill as normally would. I'm not pushing you to do this for any reason other than your truck is 17 years old and if the internal pump assembly has never been cleaned, looked at or replaced than it's time to do so anyway.

 

[troutwest66]

Are you mixing oils? 5-40 and 15-40? Synthetic 5-40 alone like Rotella T6 is the best option. Helps the spool valves in the injectors. Injectors could be bad. Have you had a shop with the Ford scan tool scan it? Rule of thumb is to start there. Could show bad injectors without throwing DTCs.

 

[MuleMan]

I did mix some viscosities up on last oil change but both were T6 synthetic. It was all they had when I needed to change oil at both stores. This time, I have 14 quarts of T6, 5-40w on the shelf.

Have a new upper fuel filter cap coming with a tapped port to fit into a pressure gauge and was going to wait until these results are known before taking the truck to the ford dealer for a scan. I agree with troutwest66 and after the fuel pressure test, planning to take it to someone who can perform a deep health scan and see what that yields.

Thanks

 

[MuleMan]

Have another idea to ask you about...

After talking to another 'industrial' mechanic, we are wondering if Rotella T6 5-40 weight is too thin for the original 2003 HPOP?

The engine ran fine all winter but these issues showed up when the weather and engine have warmed up?

I am waiting for a new 'fitted' fuel filter cap to arrive to manually watch the fuel pressure while driving but developed this 'too thin' concept and curious what you think.

Still perplexed.

 

[DaveBen]

I had an early 2004 6.0 and I switched to 5-40 and had no problems. I would get the romps with 15-40, so it was too think when cold.

 

[troutwest66]

Too thin would be in warmer temps and I have zero problems in the summer with 5-40. All I have run since I bought the truck in '16. Probably not the issue but I wonder if mixing viscosities is causing it?? Just thinking out loud. Hopefully the scan will tell all.