Newbie Questions..Programmers, chips, etc.

[skip584]

Still trying to get a grip on the whole PSD performance thing. Not to sound completly dumb here, but can someone please explain to me the differences between programmers and chips and advantages and disadvantages. I have been looking through all the forums and vendors online and am now more confused then ever with all the options. I talk to some guys and they talk about a seperate box to run the transmission transmission command? One guy told me he spent $500-600 on a programmer then took his truck to be worked on and lost the program?? I am an old diesel guy that knows his way around a pump but am a little lost on the powerstrokes. I have been trying to talk my self into getting one. I see all the modifications available, like the 10K and fuel reg. shim, does a program or chip make these mods unecessary or help the program or chip.? One guy told me that a flip chip? could be custom burned?? to my vehicle specs, ie. auto , gearset, tire size, injectors, turbo ,etc. and intended purpose, ie. stock , tow, heavy tow, fun, more fun, holy crap.? I really like the sound of this but don't want to lose my program somehow. Also is there a diagnostic software that I could run on a laptop or computer to do my own diagnostics, etc? I know this is a lot of questions, please bear with me. I'm just an old dog, trying to learn a new trick I will be getting a 7.3 probably a 2000 for the better internals.

 

[pdt1081]

A chip plugs into the computer itself. This requires removing the computer and cleaning the electrical connections inside and plugging the chip in. There are multi-position "flip-switches" available to allow you to change between programs (power levels) while going down the road. One disadvantage to chips is how easy they are to detect (for warranty purposes).

A programmer stores your stock program and uploads a new program to the truck's computer. This process takes about 10-15 minutes. Programmers do not allow you to change power levels while going down the road. It is a long process, but there is no removal/cleaning of anything. They can be virtually undetectable. Most programmers also come with the ability to read and clear Trouble Codes. The best thing to do with programmers is return them to stock before taking the truck anywhere to be worked on. Ford releases programming updates for older trucks every once and awhile, and some dealerships will reflash the computers with this updated programming for free. This is probably why the guy lost his program.

I hope this helps. Feel free to ask all the questions you want. This place is very helpful. Gets expensive in here too

 

[fgtex]

Also is there a diagnostic software that I could run on a laptop or computer to do my own diagnostics, etc?

Here is a thread from a couple of days ago. Sponsor ITP Diesel (look up) sells software called AutoEnginuity that can be loaded on your laptop. Look under 'tools and diagnostics' for more info.

http://www.superdutydiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=469&highlight=diagnostic+software

 

[bjfuller17]

In the same boat

Guys I'm new at this too, and just wanted some suggestions on programmers. I'm not really worried about price I'm just trying to get the best bang for the buck. If you could help me out I'd appreciate it.

 

[94f450sd]

dont waste your time or money ona programmer.a chip with custom burns on it will smoke a programmer any day.contact ryan bean at www.beansdieselperformance.com and he can hook you up with some sweet ass chip programs

 

[dpantazis]

i just finished my upgrade path

this is the place to ask questions, and feel to ask. people around here are really friendly and helpful. so far, i have not been flamed for asking simple or fundamental type questions. i do not consider myself an expert.

the issue with what kind of chip or other pcm upgrade you want really depends on what you want to do with the truck. most folks only need 1 or 2 programs. you don;t REALLY need 6 programs, but its nice if you have them. how often you need to switch is another thing to consider.

i just finished my upgrade path on my 2000 f250. i wanted 80hp econo for HW travel and maybe 40 or 60 for around town. my goal was fuel economy and i trust my chip vendors advice. so i waited for the warranty to run out and then started doing the other 'pre-requisite' mods. intake, filters, etc.. gauges especially. i did shim the FPR but not the 10K mod.

i was torn between the programmer and the chip too. pros and cons both ways.

costs: dp-tuner.com who is jody tipton has a decent breakdown of costs. the programs are pretty much the same price. chips are about half the cost of the tuner.

with both the programmer and the chip, the programming is done by the tuner (jody tipton, tony wildman, etc...). its pretty much the same program just different methods of interfacing them to the PCM.

while many people like the programmer, based on my other experiences, i do not like making firmware upgrades. this opinion is based on things like routers, csu/dsu and telco type switches, which are meant to get upgraded. when the upgrade hoses the firmware, you always end up putting in the spare piece of equipment and take the hosed one out of service to fix what you broke trying to make it better. i don;t know about you but i don;t have or really want to invest in a spare PCM. SOO, i ended up going with the flip-chip because i only wanted a couple of programs. a chip can be upgraded simply by pulling it out and fedexing to the tuner. a few days time and maybe $20 on shipping is fine for me to tweak it or change it if i have to.

pulling the PCM is SUPER easy and i say this after being intimidated taking it out for the first time. putting it back in, i was a bit tennative, but now in retrospect, its easy and nothing to be afraid of. (i encountered resistance in putting the connector back on the pcm and did not think there should be any resistance so i did not want to force it back together, but the small resistance is ok)

as far as overwriting the program: if you have the programmer then you simply re-upload the 'stock' program to the pcm. of you don;t you pull it and send it back to the tuner to get reflashed. if you have a chip, then you pull the chip. either way, you are looking at 15-20 minutes of doing something if you care about warranty.

you cant really go wrong either way. one just cost more than the other.

on the bright side, you can pretty much recover you money selling a GOOD chip used or a GOOD programmer with programs used.

as far as OBD goes, i prefer the laptop based ones. i prefer to have seperate devcies for seperate takes.

dennis

 

[bjfuller17]

When getting a chip what kind of programs are there to choose from and how far can I push my truck before things start going wrong and what other mods would i need to get the max effect from a chip.

 

[dpantazis]

from this page- http://dp-tuner.com/pricing.htm here are some examples of canned programs (there are other companies and programs, jody's was just the handiest to get to).

all of these can be singly burned to the pcm, or in combinations to a flip chip, or 3(?) stored in the programmer to upload:

"Our chips support up to 6 switch on the fly programs.
Available standard programs for chips and PCM Performance Flash:
Stock
No-Start
Valet
High Idle
20, 40, & 60HP Tow
80HP Econo
100HP Performance
120HP Race
140HP Extreme"

somewheres i was told that the flip chip and switch are TS Performance developed and all the tuners use them, so the flp chip hardware is the same.

as far as what you can do with 'stock' truck.. that depends and i don;t know enough to give an educated opinion. i think you have to at least helps truck breath better (open up the exhaust and less restrictive air filter box) get pyro and boost gauge to see what is going on.

dennis

 

[94f450sd]

supporting mods needed for a chip.

intake system,get a TYMAR intake or make your own.i made mine but i dont have the website for them.

3" downpipe and gutted cat or a full 4" system fromt the turbo back.

GUAGES,gotta have gauges to keep an eye on EGTs(exhuast temps),boost,and tranny temp(if auto tranny).

then get the chip.on thesuperduties i think the most extra HP your gonna get from stock injectors is around 100HP,but dont quote me on that.if you got the stock autotranny just be conservative with the high chip programs as they cant handle alot of power.stock clutch may need an upgrade with higher chip programs.if you want some nasty chip programs contact ryan bean and see what he's got for the super dutys.tony wildman has some INSANE programs.

 

[94f450sd]

. you don;t REALLY need 6 programs,

dude are you nuts? if i could get a 12 position chip i would have one