R-134A being discontinued???
- Thread starter Zookie400
- Start date
RoyBoy
Diesel Dork
OK, it appears that freeze 12 is an OK blend, as long as it is used LEGALLY (unique service fittings, system properly re-labeled, never blended w/ R134a- most people don't do this) but I still can't understand why everyone has such a problem with R134a.
The problem with flammable refrigerants is not that they are under your hood, they are in your passenger area, a leak in an evaporator (fairly common these days) can be catastrophic.
You don't have gas lines running through your cab
The problem with flammable refrigerants is not that they are under your hood, they are in your passenger area, a leak in an evaporator (fairly common these days) can be catastrophic.
You don't have gas lines running through your cab
MBRPCrazyford
Eat Some Smoke
You don't have gas lines running through your cab
Well, not normally, but some vehicles have exceptions
Not road legal of course
If you put Freeze12, or any of "drop-in substitute refrigerants" in your vehicle, plan on servicing it yourself. We won't touch it.
Cross-contaminated (mixed) refrigerants cause enormous problems in the mobile a/c industry. You have to have dedicated equipment for each refrigerant used; store each recovered refrigerant in a seperate, labelled DOT container; have to account to the EPA every year what refrigerant & how much is inventoried; I can go on from there.
The EPA deems me liable for even accidental cross-contamination. A truck comes in our shop with a drop-in in it, and we recover & recycle from it, I'm monetarily liable for every car that machine services from then on, and every recovery machine that services that car from then on, and every a/c unit THAT recovery machine services from then on...
your truck is not worth a million dollars in liabilty.
But the best part? The vehicle OWNER who put the goofy-arsed "blend" refrigerant in it... is NOT liable...
So I don't give a damn what the EPA tells you, the EPA tells me different.
Use Freeze12 at your own risk.
--edit--
From Bush's link..
Are flammable refrigerants automatically unacceptable?
EPA considers flammability as one factor in the SNAP risk screen. Rather than serving to disqualify a substitute, flammability may necessitate additional testing and assessment of risk. The risks from using a flammable refrigerant, such as a hydrocarbon, are extremely dependent on the conditions and type of equipment. EPA believes that it may well be possible to safely use flammable refrigerants, and encourages manufacturers to contact SNAP to discuss the information needed to support such a submission. To date, hydrocarbons have only been found acceptable in industrial process refrigeration. It is illegal to use hydrocarbon refrigerants as CFC or HCFC substitutes in motor vehicle air conditioning. Furthermore, only a few hydrocarbon blends have been evaluated for other end uses, and those (HC-12a®, OZ-12a® and Duracool 12a) have been found unacceptable in all refrigeration and air conditioning end uses other than industrial process refrigeration. A fact sheet provides information about HC-12a®, OZ-12®, and Duracool12a. These refrigerants, as well as propane, butane, isobutane and propylene, have been found acceptable for industrial process refrigeration.
Cross-contaminated (mixed) refrigerants cause enormous problems in the mobile a/c industry. You have to have dedicated equipment for each refrigerant used; store each recovered refrigerant in a seperate, labelled DOT container; have to account to the EPA every year what refrigerant & how much is inventoried; I can go on from there.
The EPA deems me liable for even accidental cross-contamination. A truck comes in our shop with a drop-in in it, and we recover & recycle from it, I'm monetarily liable for every car that machine services from then on, and every recovery machine that services that car from then on, and every a/c unit THAT recovery machine services from then on...
your truck is not worth a million dollars in liabilty.
But the best part? The vehicle OWNER who put the goofy-arsed "blend" refrigerant in it... is NOT liable...
So I don't give a damn what the EPA tells you, the EPA tells me different.
Use Freeze12 at your own risk.
--edit--
From Bush's link..
Are flammable refrigerants automatically unacceptable?
EPA considers flammability as one factor in the SNAP risk screen. Rather than serving to disqualify a substitute, flammability may necessitate additional testing and assessment of risk. The risks from using a flammable refrigerant, such as a hydrocarbon, are extremely dependent on the conditions and type of equipment. EPA believes that it may well be possible to safely use flammable refrigerants, and encourages manufacturers to contact SNAP to discuss the information needed to support such a submission. To date, hydrocarbons have only been found acceptable in industrial process refrigeration. It is illegal to use hydrocarbon refrigerants as CFC or HCFC substitutes in motor vehicle air conditioning. Furthermore, only a few hydrocarbon blends have been evaluated for other end uses, and those (HC-12a®, OZ-12a® and Duracool 12a) have been found unacceptable in all refrigeration and air conditioning end uses other than industrial process refrigeration. A fact sheet provides information about HC-12a®, OZ-12®, and Duracool12a. These refrigerants, as well as propane, butane, isobutane and propylene, have been found acceptable for industrial process refrigeration.
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You don't have gas lines running through your cab
never had a vintage Beetle, did ya?
anyway, rant mode off & back to the topic
R134a is on the xhit list because it contains carbon dioxide, which is "TA DA"... a "greenhouse" gas...
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DaveBen
SDD Senior Member
The fuel line in my Bug went under the tranny shifter tunnel to the engine, so it never was in the passengers area.
Dave
Dave
I was thinking more of the gasoline heater.
For those of us too young to remember, not "heater FOR gasoline," but a "heater USING gasoline"
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bartman
Full Access Member
I see that Freeze12 is a safe alternative.
I also see that RoyBoy addressed my concerns about flammable refrigerants.
Freeze 12 is only approved as a sub for R22, which is used in stuff like RV roof units, refrigeration units, bus & train rooftop units
You guys... just because something is legal for sale, does not mean it's legal for use in whatever you want to squirt it into.
Read my rant above. I work in this industry. I repair A/C units daily.
If my refrigerant identifier says anything other than "R12" or "R134a" I'm not touching your truck. I'm not "just charging it up," because the State EPA says I can't recharge a system with a known leak. The State of Michigan Bureau of Auto Repair says if I hook gauges to it, I'm hooking them up with the intent of repairing a system. I cannot, by law, top off a system without a warranty on repairs performed. If the repair is cramming a leaker full so it can spew ozone depleting or greenhouse emission refrigerant, I'm legally bound to repair that system at no cost. And pardon me, I'm not doing $3,000. of repairs on your vehicle for $125.
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powerboatr
living well in Texas
off topic
my 55 chevy short bed pickup had the gas tank in the TRUCK behind the seat
boy she sure did smell up the cab when i filled her up
back on topic
