NSA program...ruled unconstitutional

[Scarlet_Nape]

I agree with the practice, but have my concerns about doing the "search" without any sort of warrant. Without the warrant, there doesn't seem to be any limit to what they are listening for...terrorist, drug deals, financial fraud, embezzlment, etc. While those of us who are "crime-free" have nothing to worry about, all of us still have rights and they need protecting.
My hope is the practice will be put back in place with a few more guidelines on the goverment.

 

[02SilverStroke]

I agree with the practice, but have my concerns about doing the "search" without any sort of warrant.

Maybe TX_Atty can weigh in on this, but if you're listening to international calls and are suspecting terrorist activity, wouldn't that be probable cause and a warrant wouldn't be needed? Plus if a warrant would be needed, then there's a chance one or both parties would know that they're being monitored which would defeat the purpose. JMHO.

 

[Tx_Atty]

probable cause does not vitiate the need for a warrant. It is actually what will get you a warrant. A warrant must be supported by probable cause.

I know that wire taps are historically more closely scrutinized and more difficult to get.

The most common exceptions to warrants are (and this probably mixes state and federal) plain view, exigent circumstances (flight risk), imminent threat, crime in officer's presence and a few others I dont recall. Basically you need a warrant for any search unless you can fit into a narrow list of exceptions.

One problem with the wire taps is that for a warrant you have to be able to tell the magistrate what you are looking for, where you expect to find it, why you suspect you will find it, and how you came about the information. This is much harder to do when you are wanting to listen in to conversations between unknown parties but have no idea what they might be discussing.

Boy, Im rusty on procedure! Loved the class but it doesnt stick for long when you dont use it regularly.

 

[Big K]

Give them a foot and they will take a MILE!!!

Just wait and see, this will lead to most of our civil liberties to be eroded, little by little.

Maybe one day everyone will wake up and say, didn’t I used to have THIS freedom???

 

[bling821]

Abuse of the system is a definite concern about the phone taps and so is false arrest. We also have other programs/laws in effect that also have these same downfalls. It really sucks that you could possibly be mistaken for a terrorist but you could also be thrown in jail for a murder you didn't commit. That happens too you know.

This is one example of how they are going to attemp to defeat the U.S. without even doing anything. It is the courts that are going to get us defeated. Prime example of that was the Moussaoui trial. What did we show them? Were are weakness lies, in the law system. Its those left-wing polititians that are going to cause the demise. Just think about this, when U.S. civilian contractors ( persons not fighting the war) are captured over seas, they get their heads cut off. We capture a REAL terrorist and nobody can agree on his fate. When did America lose its spine?

 

[dpantazis]

abuse of the system is what is at the core of this and many other issues. >THEY< don't have to do anything, WE are slowly destoying ourselves.

people are stupid. they focus on the diddling details than rather solve the bigger problems.

disclaimer: i am a gun toting liberal. actually i am more of a libertarian than anything. this may draw some flames from some, but that is fine. we each have a right to believe in what we believe. diversity the beauty of this country.

telecom wiretaps- aside from the due process neglect, what no one is talking about is the COST of this. the telcos fleece us to begin with, and then got paid to harvest data to sell to the government? and then they post record profits? guess what, WE pay for all of this.

this administration has taken the position that dissent is treason and that is wrong. it is each citizen's RIGHT to speak out against the wrongs and injustices. that is one of the foundations to a democratic society. that is why the ACLU exists. who else defends ALL of our rights?

rob't: your reference to liberalism and nazism is double edged. some of the reasons for the birth and rise of nazism was nationalist/imperialist rhetoric that focused on a single RELIGIOUS group as the local cause of a global economic depression and exploited it. the conservatives like bringing fear and loathing into equation- but isn;t this the SAME thing? so they look heroic picking apart people who choose to support 'the enemy.'

the sad truth is that the problems in the middle east and inspirations for terror are a direct result of 60 years of poor american foreign policy. the US is actually the BIGGEST sponsor of terrorism by almost single handedly supporting israel. the US spends $5 BILLION in military aid, loan guarantees, and economic aid. $5 BILLION! sure, its a drop of the firehose that is the federal budget, but lots of little drops make a stream.

so yes, as a citizen i have a problem knowing the $5 billion is spent on a quasi-democracy somewhere in the world when we could put most of that money to better use feeding our own starving children, reforming education, funding alternative energies, fixing our roads.

the strife in the middle east and terrorism could come to an end if we put conditions on aid or turned the faucet off.

so when another attack happens, and i believe that its only a matter of time, i for one will not be bemoaning what we coulda-shoulda-woulda done to prevent it, but rather DEMAND that we reform the SOURCE of the problem. i only wish that more people stand back and look at the bigger picture too.

dennis

 

[Boadie]

Answer me one question, why is it that the ground pounders out there, fighting over there, the only ones that should have to give up some freedoms to protect our country but we at home do not, specially during war time.

Furthermore, most of the B.S. that occurs in the Middle East predates U.S. foreign policy. People, I believe, need to realize it is imperitive that we deal with the rest of the world for our own good and everyone elses. We can not only do things around the world with heart we also have to what is in our best interests.

While in the military the difference between what we did and why we did is often so different then what comes out for the American public to hear its fricken amazing. There was things that I, performing the mission, did not even know that the press claimed to know. In conclusion, it takes a good year until you get the whole complete story out of the press if you ever get it all.

 

[Tbar]

Ok guys............lets keep this out of the political arena. That only leads to conflict between members which we don't want on this forum.


Tbar

 

[Tx_Atty]

Tbar, thank you for simply making a note rather than arbitrarily locking it. Moderating in moderation, exactly why I stay here rather than other places!

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Like others have said, I too have nothing to hide.

Bottom line: if it'll keep some ignorant, brain-washed goat herder from detonating a car full of explosives in front of my house, the government can listen in on all the phone calls they want.