Ignorant tuner question

[TexasA&M]

Hi everyone -

I've been toiling with gas engines for 10 years or so and have a pretty decent understanding of them. I just picked up my first diesel truck though, and am just starting to learn about them.

I have a 2006 F250 6.0.

My question here is regarding tuners and programmers. I've done some searching, but everything I find is pretty specific. I'm looking for some very general information on how programmers typically work.

What exactly do they change in how the engine runs to acheive more power and/or mpg? What are some of the better ones? What should you watch out for when looking for one? Do they ALWAYS void the waranty?

Eventually I will be looking for one in order to get better mpg. Not really interested in more power (at least, not at the expense of anything else, particularly longevity and breakage).

Any general information is apreciated.

Thanks!!

- Steve

 

[kingkevindavid]

no ignorant questions here Steve. I am by no means an expert on tuners and I actually removed the Banks Six Gun I had and sold it.
If / when I purchase a new tuner it will be a SCT. Many of the 6.0 owners on here run Custom SCT tunes. I am sure they will speak up. I am sure they will even be able to direct you to a someone who sells them.
Make sure you add some gauges before you add a tuner, need to watch that tranny and the EGT's.

 

[KRISTOLSON]

basically your 6.0 is overbuilt from the factory(debateable, I know) It is cabable of much more hp, but it is "de-tuned" to increase longevity and control emissions.

A tuner increases power by adding fuel, and increasing the boost pressure to increase the air going into the engine, just like if you were tuning a gas engine. Tuners don't just create power from nothing, as some would like to believe. They use more fuel to produce more power. That being said, if you have a heavy foot, you will likely get WORSE mileage with a power focused tuner.

A tuner also makes all the components of the engine work harder, especially the high pressure oil pump, injectors, turbo, etc. And IMO, any time you start making things work harder, you decrease the life expectancy. With a mild tune you might see a very minimal or no engine life reduction. With an extreme tune, you might see a more substantial life reduction. I think most people will agree with me on that.

I have a banks 6-gun with a speed loader, and I haven't had any problems with it. On level 6 it has more power than I will ever need, boosting the output something like 130+hp and 260+ft/lbs. torque. It also has safety features built into it, such as the exhaust probe that allows the tuner to cut back on fuel and boost when the egt reaches a dangerous temp. I do not generally use level 6, I leave it on 4 or so, and if I drive nice, I can get about 4 more mpg's than stock. Most of the people on this site seem to favor an SCT tuner, and have custom tunes to make it run how they want. Other than that little bit of info I have no experience with sct or their tuning capabilities.I bought the Banks tuner before I had even heard of SCT, before I joined this forum. I bought it mostly because it was a good deal, but also because banks has a pretty good reputation, despite what people on here say and because of the focus they have on safety features. And after having it there is nothing I do not like about it. Most of the complaints about banks seem to come from their customer service, but I have never even had to call them.

If you are interested purely in fuel mileage, Banks makes an "economind" tuner, which achieves a fuel mileage increase of something like 12% just by metering the fuel more precisely than the factory ecu. I think there is some subsequent hp gains from this tuner as well, but that is not the focus of it. I am sure that you could also get a custom program for an sct that would do the same thing, but someone else on here may be able to tell you about that.

As far as the factory is concerned, any tuner will void the vehicle warranty. They won't even bat an eye. If you are lucky you may be able to find a mod friendly dealer who will still do warranty work for you. They probably just don't mention it in their paperwork, you know.

I hope this helps, I like to have all of the info before I make a decision too.

 

[TexasA&M]

Thanks for the info. This is good stuff.

What kind of other stuff will void the waranty? Exhaust?

Also, my truck has a tranny temp and boost gauge stock, so all I need to add is an EGT. What gauge do you guys recomment, and where do you put the probe? My understanding is that it needs to go on the downpipe, as close to the turbo as possible. Any chance there is already a bung on the stock downpipe?

 

[KRISTOLSON]

Haha just about anything can void the warranty, it all depends on the dealer who is working on it. It seems like ford is itching to get out of warranty liability on anything it can.(times are tough, right??) If you buy a tuner, lots of them have the option to get a guage or guages integrated with them (or a pda, etc..) Otherwise, for a standalone guage either go to dieselsite.com or a quick search of ebay might find you a good buy. To put in my egt sensor, I had to drill and tap a hole in the driver's side manifold. They make a clamp-on one, but I can't see how that would be accurate at all.


The more I look at these sct tuners, the more I want to know. I hear good things, but I also hear about programs not working and other PIA situations. I wish someone would give a good info post about them.

 

[KRISTOLSON]

no bung... either drill and tap or weld on a bung after the back cylinder on either side, doesn't really matter.Probably have to take off a manifold so you dont get shavings in your turbo. make sure to put it before the turbo, not on the downpipe for the most benefitial readings. If you go to http://assets.bankspower.com/manuals/107/96450.pdf, you can look at a pdf of the install of an egt sensor as well as the rest of the instuctions for a banks install. (egt probe starts on page 20)

 

[pete37922]

i have a Q...are there different tuners between auto trannys and manual trannys ???

 

[CCSBD]

FYI the factory trans temp sucks you will want a different guage for that I dont have first hand with banks but I have read they are not good on the transmission at ALL! I have a SCT with custom tunes and love it!! It tunes the motor and the trans so it will thank you for that. They DO void the warranty but just set it back to stock before you take it in and try to find a mod friendly dealer.

If you decide to start adding power though the stock 6.0 head bolts (not all) do not like it! So I would suggest lookin into headstuds and egr delete for insurance. It will help save the motor in the long run

 

[dennisj2003]

Well I have a Banks system, and an SCT with custom tunes, As said before the Banks unit has built in saftey, It wont let the tuner fuel the truck before it warms up, and wont let the egt get to high, I like these built in features.
I dont have the Banks hooked up right now, I am using the SCT because it is only a week old and still toying with it, YOU REALLY NEED GAUGES WITH THIS!! The extreme street will smoke the tires and the engine, with the street tune it is about equal to the banks on level 6, I will be trying the tow setting soon.
With all this said I may be installing the banks back on my truck, no problems with either product other then trans not shifting right occasionally,
I am not going to down either, I really like the power of the SCT, cant seem to keep my foot out of it, but for now I like the saftey of the banks.

 

[kingkevindavid]

Well I have a Banks system, and an SCT with custom tunes, As said before the Banks unit has built in saftey, It wont let the tuner fuel the truck before it warms up, and wont let the egt get to high, I like these built in features.
I dont have the Banks hooked up right now, I am using the SCT because it is only a week old and still toying with it, YOU REALLY NEED GAUGES WITH THIS!! The extreme street will smoke the tires and the engine, with the street tune it is about equal to the banks on level 6, I will be trying the tow setting soon.
With all this said I may be installing the banks back on my truck, no problems with either product other then trans not shifting right occasionally,
I am not going to down either, I really like the power of the SCT, cant seem to keep my foot out of it, but for now I like the saftey of the banks.

I agree with Dennis, I had a Banks system as well and it has lots of safety features built in.
Dennis, I talked to Innovative Diesel a couple years ago when I was thinking about stacking and they strongly recommended not doing it. I know you are not stacking but they recommended not even using the SCT while the Banks is installed. I don't remember exactly why (besides way to much power on an otherwise stock engine) they told me not to stack. Remember when we installed the Banks we had to go through that process for the transmission to "learn" the Banks, maybe that has something to do with the SCT not shifting right.???? I looked through my saved emails and I don't have the emails anymore.