Help Needed HPOP pressure (dealer vs autoenginuity)

[Eubee]

Hey all. I admitted defeat and hauled the SD into the dealer for diagnosis. Truck is a crank-no-start. They called and said, as of right now, there is one bad injector and the HPOP is not building enough pressure to start engine. I used Autoenginuity's scan tool, and the ICP read 550PSI during cranking. I was under the impression that only 500PSI was required to start engine. Dealer wants $2400 as of current (there may be more wrong they say) if I want them to fix it. Dealer trying to take me for a ride?

Thanx

 

[KRISTOLSON]

I had a similar problem last summer, got towed to a dealer in the middle of nowhere iowa. They really didn't have any diesel specialists there and ford has a tsb that directs the mechanics to replace both the icp and the hpop in that situation. So I payed the $2700 and had them both done, because I was stuck and had no tools with me.

Now, after doing some research and hearing what everyone else says that had work done on their 6.0's and truly know the engine I would have taken a different approach.

First- I would have made damn sure I had enough oil in the engine, as little as 2 quarts low can cause a no start. I checked it, but maybe not as carefully as I should have. (I am sure your dealer checked that first thing, before they hooked up the diagnostic, right?LOL)

Second- I would have authorized the dealer to do the icp reg and sensor only. This is the more common problem, and with parts an labor it is only about $500.

Third- If that did not take care of it, I would have let them do the hpop. The hpop is in the valley of the engine, underneath the intake manifold. Huge job! 7 hours labor plus over 700 for the pump. At $150/ hour that is the piggy bank breaker. Either way they are going to charge full book labor for both jobs, even though they kind of work into the same job. So why not do the less expensive easy one first, right?


I guess it is possible if the oil is bypassing the bad injector, that COULD be the problem as well, but I would say more likely one of the first 3.

Hope this helps, I know autoenginuity is a good scanner, but if the sensor or reg is bad, it could be an inaccurate reading. I think the theoretic pressure to crack over the injector is around 400psi.

 

[Eubee]

I have not talked to the shop directly yet, message was a voicemail. I am stopping by in the morning to pay my diagnostic fee and do some negotiating.

I replaced the ICP sensor on new years eve '08; but not the IPR.

Oil level was good, actually a bit high. Checked before I took it in.

The HPOP should not take much longer than the ICP did, since it is close to the same location. I intend to do the work myself, as I can not afford to pay someone for what I can do. Guess I'll have her hauled back home and tear into her. This may be a good time to rip out the EGR and cooler as well as possibly do head gaskets (I have a slow coolant leak from somewhere on the passenger side of engine).

FWIW: Gaudin Ford (aka silverstatefordparts.com) has new stock injectors for $198.22 w/$180.00 core being extra, and $497.51 for the HPOP w/$150.00 core being extra.

 

[KRISTOLSON]

Those are good prices, much better than I payed at the stealership. Like I said, I was stuck 1500 miles from home in B.F. Iowa, or I would have done it myself They knew they had me stuck there and took the opportunity to make a few hundo off me.(also charged me 30$/gal for coolant and 150 for an oil change, if that gives you any idea how shady this shop was).

 

[Eubee]

... ...

Wholy wah! That stinks. Depending on how much I trust my vehicles, I always carry some tools and parts around with me for long trips. One of my recent Fieros had an entire spare distributor unit in the trunk at all times though, along with the tools to replace it. ...and a timing light just in case. I am headed to the dealer here in just a few minutes to see what they say.

--Jess

 

[KRISTOLSON]

Haha funny story about the tools, I had my whole mobile box with me, 200 lbs worth of tools and parts. But when I got to minneapolis on the way to lake of the ozarks to pick up my girlfriend's dad, mom, his 22.5' crownline and standup jetski, I got the whole," do we really need all that stuff?" routine and after several minutes of debating he insisted that we only take with his little bag of tools he has for the boat trailer. and we also had to leave behind my tailgate???? cuz with the jetski in the back it wouldn't close and with it down it might hurt the boat in some unforseen god knows how way....... anyway, there were many causes, but my week vacation took 2 weeks, including one lost week of work, and $2700.00 out of my fun money pile and the extra week was spent stuck in bloomfield iowa, NOT AT THE LAKE!!!!

I agree with you, if you are already in there, and your only direct expense is parts, might as well do it all and get her ready for another 200k.

 

[Eubee]

I know where you are coming from. That is why I implemented the, "If it is my truck, I will haul what I want. If you don't like it, start walking." rule. I'll be tearing into her tonight as soon as the rollback delivers her.

On a side note, Midland Ford (Midland, MI) has just lost any of my return service. They said that they would not discuss, in detail, what they found because I am not a mechanic and did not need to know. Something about I would not know what to do with detailed information. WTF does that have to do with anything!? So, I just shut my mouth, paid my bill, said thank you, walked out, and called for a rollback.

Ha, just noticed that that is the pic in your sig.

 

[KRISTOLSON]

I'll be tearing into her tonight as soon as the rollback delivers her

Keep us updated, I always love to see pictures


P.S.... there should be a sticky thread on here for people to post dealerships that have done them wrong, as well as dealerships who have provided a truly good service(if that has ever happened)

 

[Dogman]

P.S.... there should be a sticky thread on here for people to post dealerships that have done them wrong, as well as dealerships who have provided a truly good service(if that has ever happened)

Yes on that, it would help keep dealers some what inline. Call it Big Brothers Watching or BBW.....LOL I'll bet you ford has people looking at sites like this for feed back and other things.

 

[Eubee]

Well, below is where I sit as of now. Started at 10:30PM yesterday, but was not at it constantly the whole time. Going to take a break for a bit here and get a couple hours of sleep. I'll get back to it when I get up. I did however find a couple interesting things as I was tearing into it.
-The EGR cooler was blocked off by a previous owner. There is a freezeplug welded in where the cooler meets the exhaust up-pipe, and a multi-layered gasket & block off plate where it enters the intake just before the EGR valve.
-The EGR cooler was leaking, where the curved steel pipe goes into the orange hose just before the oil cooler.
-There was an awfully large (it seems anyway) amount of oil exiting the turbo and going down the down pipe. That does not seem like a good thing to me.
-I really hate the idiot that designed the cooling fan setup on this truck.
-I need to buy more tools.
-only got a little over two gallons of coolant out of the drain on the radiator (thats disturbing)

I think I may be doing some of the mods/maintenence that I have been holding off on now.
*manual oil pressure gauge
*delete EGR valve
*coolant filter
*delete entire EGR cooler altogether
*valve cover gaskets (each bank has a couple broke bolts too) <-- I may hold off on this one a bit until I replace the injector(s) that is/are bad
*EGT gauge
*clean & inspect turbo
*clean IC and pipes

Please forgive the pic quality, they were taken with the phone's camera.