Cat Delete Pipe Costing Me Big MPG Loss . . .
- Thread starter rgdillon
- Start date
nascar_fan28
Full Access Member
yeah.. my mpg is up around 18 and 20... withouth soot trap.. have straight through muffler.. and 4inch exhaust... power is also lil better.. but really cant tell that much. alls i know is soot trap didnt keep my truck from smoking or smelling horrible... gm guys laugh at me lol
nascar_fan28
Full Access Member
no cuz my truck smells horrible.. looks like its burring tons of oil... and it brand new... but i just tell them its a ford..
powerboatr
living well in Texas
nascar_fan28 said:
how new
mine no smoke cept first start when its COLD out
nascar_fan28
Full Access Member
thats what i mean... smokes blue when u start, not so much in summer, i ordered truck last january, have 29000 miles on it,
Hoss 350
My GSP, Dutch
Nice explanation of the way a 3-way catalyst works. Except for the catalyst on a diesel truck is only a two-way catalyst, no need for an O2 sensor for it to work. That is why we had cats on gassers before O2 sensors were around. They were all 2-way until O2 sensors came about.bushpilot said:Hoss you'd make a great moderator over @ TDS...there im done now too
fact of the matter is the cat installed fords diesel trucks cant
possibly function properly...you see for a CAT to work it MUST
have pre & post O2 Sensors...
the way a CAT works is in co-ordination w/ the O2 Sensors...you see the
computer reads the mixture pre & post cat and then changes the
mixture to be "in compliance" w/ emission guidelines...
a cat doesnt properly function until its "up to temp"...so when you
start your car and its cold the 02 reading/measurments are dis-reguarded....
early systems didnt bother w/ POST cat 02 measurments...they simply
ASSUMED the cat was working...most systems NOW have more than
2 and sometimes more than 4 O2 sensors...(adjusting banks on
each side to be rich or lean in order to reduce emissions)....all you
need is ONE bad 02 sensor...itll force the computer to change the
mixture to improper levels and the next thing you know you got
a melted/plugged cat (go ahead ask me how i know)
plug a cat, run it long enough, and youll have toasted valves or
worse.
the cats on OUR trucks are nothing more than SOOT traps because
theres no 02 sensors...and from an emissions perspective soot
traps are nothing more than a band-aide on a perceived problem.
disconnect or remove your CAT and ill bet you TRUCK TITLES you
never get a single code, MIL or CEL dash light turned on...EVEN on
a california based truck....
I'll try to be brief, but here it is in a nutshell. A 3-way catalyst (on a gasser) has TWO cores of ceramic with a catalyst on them (one with platinum, and one with rodium). The platinum part of the catalyst takes care of 2 of the 3 "ways" the cat cleans the exhaust. It takes the hydrocarbons and the carbon monoxide and turns them into CO2, in a oxidation cycle, which requires a LEAN burn (ie, more oxygen than stochiometric) to take the oxygen and cause the reaction. The Roduim parts (the 3rd "way") takes nitrogen molecules off of the NOx particles and creates N1, N2, and oxygen. This part of the catalyst cycle requires a RICH burn (ie, more fuel than stochiometric). THAT is where the O2 sensor comes in. It monitors the exhaust stream in the gasser, and tells the computer to adjust the fuel mixture BACK AND FORTH across stocihimetric (I can spell it but not today
) so that ALL 3 WAYS can work properly (the oxidation cycles get their lean burns and the nitrogen cycles get their rich burn).Since diesel engines do not burn at stochiometric (direct injection), and are at all times running lean from the factory (if adjusted properly), a 2-way catalyst, which operates well in a lean-burn situation, which is always present on a diesel engine, will operate perfectly without any additional monitoring whatsoever. THey DO NOT need an O2 sensor. So, the catalyst on your 6 liter (if it were actually there
) functions to take carbon monoxide and hydrocarbon emissions and convert them into "harmless" CO2 and water-vapor.As far as the claim that they function as a "soot trap", that was discussed a few days back on here. I pretty much showed that wasn't possible, at all. The reason being that the soot particles in diesel exhaust range from 1-10 microns in size. The "holes" in the ceramic matrix of a 2-way catalyst are in the range of 1/16th of an inch. This means that the holes are 1,500 to 15,000 times too big to stop the soot particles. The "stops the soot" argument is a pretty popular one for guys that want to remove their catalysts and justify it by saying that all they do is "stop the soot". At 1,500 to 15,000 times bigger than the particles they are supposed to be stopping, i think we can pretty much debunk the myth of the catalyt soot trap.
So, in taking the catalyst off of your truck, you are creating more hydrocarbon and carbon monoxide pollution. Both cause smog, both are poisonous gasses.
I am not here to tell you you can't take your cat off. I just don't want people making themselves feel better about it by fallaciously justifying it with lies.
Again, don't read any of this in the wrong tone. I am not lecturing. I am not picking on you. I am just letting you know the basis of knowledge that you used to justify your catalyst removal is false. If you recognize that and still don't care, that is fine with me. To each his own. I just want to help you make an informed decision. Not one based off of propaganda you've been fed at some point in your life or another.
Still friends?
Hoss 350
My GSP, Dutch
There is no proof to me that the catalyst on the 6 liter reduces power of fuel economy at all. In fact, all I've ever seen from removing it on dyno runs is a reduction in low end torque. That is all.Kleetus said:
It is not a bunny huggin, liberal feel good waste of money. You must not have been around in the 1970's in the pre-catalyst days (not that I was either
) but I've heard it was pretty bad. This all coming from a gun-toting, tobacco chawing conservative that hates the EPA with a passion, but recognizes some of the good things they've done (like catalytic converters, for instance!)
Hoss 350
My GSP, Dutch
THAT was hurtful and unnecessary.bushpilot said:Hoss you'd make a great moderator over @ TDS...there im done now too
A mod on TDS would have deleted the post and denied any decent, public debate on the matter.
Since I love to hear myself talk, I have no trouble at all with public debate. i am not trying to squash the discussion like they do. i am actually trying to feed the discussion to get more people involved and let them make their own decisions based off of facts and knowledge, not trying to end all discussion on the topic, right here and right now.
I have found that general public perception of emissions controls on vehicles is basically negative, across the board. It seems that people have forgotten what it used to be like before we had them. I am just trying to remind people that they are there for a reason, and they do serve a noble cause. With all of the vehicles on the road today, I hate to think about how nasty our air would be if everybody were capable of justifying the removal of their emissions equipment, and then did so.
rgdillon
*
Hoss 350 said:THAT was hurtful and unnecessary.
Personally I like the fact that here on SDD - it's members can have a good debate/discussion along with some good natured ribbing -
As for the CAT - all I really knew was they got super-hot to burn off the bad gases and would start the grass on fire when parked on the lawn
I was however really surprised that I could look straight through mine when Bushpilot came over to borrow it - my first thought being WTF good does this thing really do? So I appreciate the explanation's on how it all works.
Now will I put it back - honestly - I can't say for right now - but I won't be trashing it. Kind of like a kid on Christmas at the moment - sound and all being like my 01 which did not come with a CAT. But when I ordered the Silverline for this truck - knowing that I would have a CAT - I did elect at that time to keep it intact and purchased only a cat back system - so who knows.
Performance wise - I don't notice any difference. It does however cool down much quicker - and EGT's don't rise as fast/high when I floor it. Anyway -
Ron
