NSA program...ruled unconstitutional

bling821

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So some judge ruled that having somebody monitor all phone calls in the U.S. or however they decide to monitor whichever phone calls is unconstitutional. I haven't met anyone who is on this forum so I don't know how you feel about this thing. I'll tell you what though, I have nothing to hide and if the government wants to listen in to make sure I'm not up to something then they can go right ahead and do it. Its not like they are going to listen in on all of the mushy stuff that you are having to say back to you wives and girlfriends. They aren't going to play it for your friends and laugh about it.

If it stops terrorist from hijacking more airplanes then by all means, DO IT. If I can't have my own bottle of water and have to drink whatever the airline has then ok. If I can't listen to my iPod, then oh well, its going to be boring but at least I have a better chance of not dying on the plane. But as far as the phone monitoring is concerned, sure there is some constituional stuff about privacy but if you have nothing to hide then what's the problem?
 

oi8228oi

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for many people it feel too much like loss of freedom and almost as if were turning into a police state with "big brother" watching over your sholder. personally i have nothing to hide, but i think it would be better on the govs part if they didnt listen to everybody, but made it so it was extreamelly easy to get warrents to listen to wholm they please so at least i know i wont be listened to when im talking to my mom, gf, boss, ect... thats my :2c
 

drchris1024

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I agree on one hand, but personal phone calls are one thing ( no big deal ) but then business comes into it. There is alot of wheeelin' and dealin' over the phone that would be pretty private. That's prolly where there will be the most disagreement. Business is also where the re-elect $$$ comes from.
 

powerboatr

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first of all its not everyones calls
just overseas and to countries who harbor or have harbored terrorist groups. which is almost all of europe except britian and germany, or if you fit a certain profile of activity in overseas trading, travel, etc.

your freedom to not be listened to does not OUTWEIGH the need to prevent another major killing like on 9/11

i bet when /if we get attacked again, some left wing will say we werent doing enough to chase leads or the like or protect our citizens, all the while forgetting they stopped the listening
plus i am not sure what hole you may be hiding in, but if you talk on the phone or use the internet :eek: you been listened to already and it probably wasnt by the Big "G" , once its broadcasted into the air, its free game.

so which do you want.
unprotected america, or a safer place to rasie your family????
if you dont put yourslef into the suspicious catergory, you really dont have to much to worry about.

you want to curb the ludicrious behavior?????
all teh suspected folks that are turned loose, put em on marhtas vineyard next door to teddy, or the other lefties who keep pandering terrorists

have a great weekend,
go read a book about the rise of NAZISM and see the similiarties to todays lefties, then read the koran, particulary the verses chapters about , sleeping with the enemey, bring them into you fold, conquer your non beleivers, then conquer the ones that joined uou that are not born muslims. real good stuff, funny the muslims dont want you to know that stuffffff.


aclu
"ACLU lawyers Noel Saleh, Mohammed Abdrabboh, and Nabih Ayad, the ACLU Plaintiffs named in the yesterday's Complaint, attorney William Swor, a member National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, and Nazih Hassan--all named in the lawsuit.

Take Noel Saleh. The thrice-disciplined attorney (who was suspended from the practice of law) openly stated at a town hall meeting with federal officials that he has financially contributed to Hezbollah. He heads an Arab welfare agency that gets millions in our tax dollars, yet was raided by the FBI for engaging in Medicaid fraud. The organization also spent thousands in our tax dollars on "job training" (commercial driving lessons and attempts at HazMat hauling certificates) for two men indicted as members of the Detroit Al-Qaeda terror cell. He has represented a number of Islamic terrorists, including Ibrahim Parlak and "former" PFLP terrorist Imad Hamad.

Then, there is Mohammed Abdrabboh, a Palestinian attorney and ACLU of Michigan Board Member. Mohammed Abdrabboh represented Gamil Manea Ahmed Al-Najar, arrested in December 2002 in raids by then U.S. Customs (now Immigration and Customs Enforcement--ICE) for operating a money-laundering business, Najjar Money Transfer, through Dix Dollar Mart--one of six businesses believed to have transmitted as much as $50 million per year to Yemen, in violation of the Patriot Act and other reporting requirements. Customs Agents told me they believed the money was going to finance terrorist activities, likely Al-Qaeda. Abdrabboh is listed as Al-Najar's attorney on the federal court docket.

He appeared at the arraignment for two Palestinian and Lebanese clients accused (and later convicted) of chopping a Jordanian Palestinian to death. All three were under investigation by the FBI for mortgage and real estate fraud and were suspected of sending the proceeds "back home" to the Mid-East for assorted nefarious activities.
Abdrabboh is heavily involved with the American Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, which openly praises Hezbollah--the terrorist group that murdered over 300 U.S. Marines and civilians in Lebanon. In the West Bank, Abdrabboh made a career of legitimizing Palestinian terrorists in his work for Al-Haq, the Palestinian version of the ACLU (only worse, if that's possible). In work for the United Nations, he co-authored a report on the "Syrian Golan." (The Golan is in ISRAEL.) Clearly, this man has a political agenda, not friendly to the United States or our key Mid-East ally

Next, there's Abdrabboh's law partner, Nabih Ayad. Both Abdrabboh and Ayad go on annual trips to the Middle East with Hamad. The trips involve meetings with Lebanese and Syrian officials tied to Hezbollah, and their travel-mates include officials of a Detroit charity that openly donated millions to HAMAS and privately raised money for Iraqi insurgents at a Los Angeles area fundraiser. Federal officials suspect that money laundering--and who knows what else--may be going on during these trips.

Ayad represented Omar Abdel-Fatah Al-Shishani, stopped at Detroit Metro Airport with millions in phony bank checks used to fund Al-Qaeda operations. Shishani--a friend of John Kerry's--didn't get much for his money, though. I had dinner with Abu Shishani in fall 2003, prior to his sentencing. It was a secret meeting with law enforcement members, and he did not know my real identity. Shishani told me that Mr. Ayad ripped him off of $25,000, did not help him, and he had to hire a new attorney. Based on that, it's hard to see how NSA spying would affect his "representation" of his client.

Then, there are his 130 clients paid off an INS inspector and committed visa fraud. Ayad got these clients from his buddy, former "terrorist" Hamad. Paying off INS inspectors, visa fraud--these are things we SHOULD be spying on.

William Swor, another Plaintiff in the suit, represented an accused member of the Detroit terror cell. During the trial, the judge reportedly lashed at him for trying to tamper with and intimidate the government's Arabic translator in the case. He sat on the Board of Saleh's Arab welfare agency, and reportedly threatened to take work away from the translator, who also did work for the agency. Like Saleh, Swor was also disciplined by the Michigan Attorney Discipline Board, for snorting up his clients' money. (He had a cocaine problem.)

Finally, there is Nazih Hassan, a member of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), Michigan Chapter--a group founded with funds from HAMAS political director Moussa Abu Marzook. Of all the Plaintiffs detailed within the case, he is the most worthy of government monitoring. He is not an attorney, but is admittedly a friend of deportee Rabih Haddad--founder of Global Relief Foundation (GRF).
__________________
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02SilverStroke

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Robert, I agree with you 110%!! I think this decision, if upheld, will be one of the biggest setbacks ever to our security. The government won't be listening to everyone's calls, just the international calls. I'm like you - I don't have anything to hide. With all the screaming about it, makes you wonder what the opponents have to hide. Probably nothing, they just are opposed to it because the current administration is using it. If Clinton, Gore, Kerry, etc were in office, then you'd hear nothing about it. It's been in operation for years, including the Carter and Clinton administrations, but you heard nothing about it then. This helped to uncover the recent plot in England. This is another tool in the war on terror, which is a war that is different from any other war that we've been in. It is unconventional, so it has to be fought using unconventional methods. On another note, with all the griping about our loss of freedoms, almost everyone has forgotten the fact that Carter started lots of these problems when he started the publicity about the human rights issues in Iran when the Shah was in power. Eventually the Shah was forced into exile, and we lost an ally in that area. Everything has gone to hell in a handbasket since then. Our country's security needs to be "top-notch" in order to preserve our freedoms. Your view of politics, whether it be liberal, conservative, Democrat, Republican, pro-life, pro-choice, or what ever, is secondary to our security. If we are not a secure nation, then all the other things are moot points because our way of life as we know it will be totally different. It all goes back to the quote: "fight them over there or fight them here". And no, I'm not sorry for the rant. Just stating the facts.
 

Inkyturbo

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I agree with all of you, and it's nice to hear from some people with a reasonable opinion. I don't have anything to hide- I don't really give a da** if the government listens to my phone calls. But to those to oppose this I ask, what are you hiding? Because if you weren't hiding anything you would be so upset!
 

powerboatr

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Inkyturbo said:
I agree with all of you, and it's nice to hear from some people with a reasonable opinion. I don't have anything to hide- I don't really give a da** if the government listens to my phone calls. But to those to oppose this I ask, what are you hiding? Because if you weren't hiding anything you would be so upset!


sometimes i have known to utter these dangerous words while on the phone "i love you"
yep if your doing something wrong you need to worry, if not
dont worry:D
 

Tx_Atty

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Im glad we had the program but I can understand the basic argument against it. If an opinion is published on this case it would explain exactly how they reached the final determination. Some of the argument against (and Im just stating it, not arguing it) is that abuses can happen, it will/can progress and grow into other areas, innocent people get wrongly accused/imprisoned/whatever... It goes on. Im not surprised by the decision, in fact, I expected it. I wish, however, it would continue.
 

jharvey

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Tx_Atty, you took the words right off my fingertips. The problem is abuse of the system.

Unfortunately in the world today I do believe that this type of intelligence gathering is necessary and needed to protect our land and citizens but the possibility of abuse is too great to be ignored.
 

95_stroker

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Tx Atty said:
It goes on. Im not surprised by the decision, in fact, I expected it. I wish, however, it would continue.

I believe a stay has already been granted on this ruling.
 
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